Septimal schisma as xenharmonic bridge?

from the Mills College Tuning Digest, 1998

edited, annotated, and appended by Joseph L. Monzo


    # 1559

    Topic No. 8

    Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:39:32 -0700 (PDT)
    From: Margo Schulter
    To:Tuning Digest
    Subject: Septimal schisma as xenharmonic bridge?

    Hello, there.

    Recent Tuning List discussions have focused on making connections between different currents of just intonation and other branches of xenharmonics.

    As someone with a special interest in Pythagorean tuning, while I might not have any additional suggestions to contribute in the way of organizational questions, it occurs to me to share a few reflections on the relationship of this xenharmonic approach to others. Curiously, the tuning if sufficiently extended also has an interesting musical linkage in its very ratios with some of these other approaches, of which more shortly.

    An interesting feature of Pythagorean tuning is that it seems to serve as a kind of crossroads for four trends in xenharmonics:

    (1) Historical tunings. Like characteristic 15th-17th century meantone and 18th-19th century unequal well-temperaments, the Pythagorean tunings of the 13th-15th centuries are associated with a great tradition of polyphonic composition. Understanding this tuning may play a vital role in understanding Gothic harmony, as well as vice versa; the tuning both influences and reflects the sonorous ideal of the period.

    (2) Cross-cultural tunings. Pythagorean systems based on pure fifths or fourths, with various modifications, occur in many world musics from China and India to Persia. Scholars such as Ervin Wilson have begun to draw some connections which may lead to a richer understanding of cross-cultural xenharmonics.

    (3) Just intonation (JI). Pythagorean tuning is not only a system of just intonation with a very long history, but also an amazingly successful system not only ideally suited to much Gothic music but inviting "Neo-Gothic extensions" approximating intervals in 5-based and 7-based systems.

    (4) N-tet and related systems. Like equal temperaments such as 17-tet, Pythagorean tuning tends to have a non-tertian focus quite distinct from "classical" European music of the post-Gothic era. Also, like these systems, it has sometimes been dismissed as "purely mathematical, not musical," or denounced as "intolerably dissonant." Fortunately, the growing recognition promoted by xenharmonicists such as Ivor Darreg that all n-tet's have a potential for beautiful music may lead to a more just appreciation of Pythagorean tuning also.

    Now for the musical linkage of

    • Pythagorean tuning, a 3-based JI system, and both
    • 5-based and
    • 7-based systems.

    This linkage involves two bridges, the first well known and the second perhaps a bit more obscure -- but obvious once John Chalmers called it to my attention.

    These bridges are the regular schisma, and what I term the septimal schisma, which permit extended Pythagorean tunings to emulate intervals of 5-based and 7-based JI systems. While the use of these intervals is, of course, at the discretion of the composer or performer, one application is to supplement the basic 3-based Pythagorean intervals with two new "flavors" of unstable intervals which can serve as diversions or impel directed cadential action toward stable octaves, fifths, and fourths.

    The regular schisma of 32805:32768 or about 1.95 cents, as many readers will be aware, is a bridge to a quasi-5-based world. It is the difference between the Pythagorean comma (531441:524288, about 23.46 cents) and the syntonic comma (81:80, about 21.51 cents) which separates a number of basic 3-based intervals from their 5-based counterparts.

    Possibly less well known, the septimal schisma of 33554432:33480783 or about 3.80 cents is a bridge to a quasi-7-based world of "superefficient" cadences and third-tone steps. It is the difference between the Pythagorean comma and the septimal comma (64:63, about 27.26 cents) which separates basic Pythagorean intervals from their 7-based counterparts.

    All we need to do is to extend Pythagorean tuning far enough, and both schismas extend their welcoming doors into new xenharmonic regions. More specifically, we generate new flavors of intervals either a comma wider or a comma narrower than the usual forms. Here are some key intervals as examples:

    
           5-schisma            Regular 3-based         7-schisma 
         (~1.95 cents)                                (~3.80 cents)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
         10 4ths or 5ths        2 5ths or 4ths      14 4ths or 5ths 
    
    M2   65536:59049            9:8                 4782969:4194304 
         (180 cents; ~10:9)     (204 cents)         (227 cents; ~8:7)
    
    m7   59049:32768            16:9                8388608:4782969
         (1020 cents; ~9:5)     (996 cents)         (973 cents; ~7:4)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
         9 5ths or 4ths         3 4ths or 5ths      15 4ths or 5ths
    
    m3   19683:16384            32:27               16777216:14348907
         (318 cents; ~6:5)      (294 cents)         (271 cents; ~7:6)
    
    M6   32768:19683            27:16               14348907:8388608
         (882 cents; ~5:3)      (906 cents)         (929 cents; ~12:7)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
         8 4ths or 5ths         4 5ths or 4ths      16 5ths or 4ths
    
    M3   8192:6561              81:64               43046721:33554432
         (384 cents; ~5:4)      (408 cents)         (431 cents; ~9:7)
    
    m6   6561:4096              128:81              67108864:43046721
         (816 cents; ~8:5)      (792 cents)         (769 cents; ~14:9)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    

    Thus it might be said that Pythagorean tuning is not only the mother of many systems but a cousin germane to many more. Also, as this chart suggests, the usual Pythagorean intervals might be viewed as a kind of "middle of the road" between 5-based and 7-based alternatives.

    An open question: might an extended Pythagorean tuning with its contrasts of basic 3-based, quasi-5-based, and quasi-7-based intervals in some way have a kinship to the three genera (diatonic, chromatic, enharmonic) or to Guido d'Arezzo's three hexachords (soft, natural, and hard)?

    In any case, the septimal schisma and the world of extended Pythagorean tunings it opens may illustrate a common adage of the xenharmonic movement: in exploring all the possibilities which music has to offer, "12 is not enough."

    Most respectfully,

    Margo Schulter

    mschulter@value.net


    Here is my Lattice Diagram illustrating the "schisma bridges" to approximate 5- and 7-Limit ratios as shown by Schulter in the table above. The 3-Limit ratios with higher exponents - the "bridges" -- are placed on the Lattice in the positions of the 5- and 7-Limit ratios which they approximate, with the 5- and 7-Limit equivalents indicated.



    # 1559

    Topic No. 10

    Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:02:22 -0500 (CDT)

    From: Paul Hahn

    Subject: Septimal schisma as xenharmonic bridge?

    On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, M. Schulter wrote:

    > Possibly less well known, the septimal schisma of 33554432:33480783 or
    > about 3.80 cents is a bridge to a quasi-7-based world of
    > "superefficient" cadences and third-tone steps. It is the difference
    > between the Pythagorean comma and the septimal comma (64:63, about
    > 27.26 cents) which separates basic Pythagorean intervals from their
    > 7-based counterparts.

    Oddly enough, I was just poking around in some old tuning list messages today, and guess what I found:

    | Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 08:52:11 -0800
    | From: Manuel Op de Coul
    | Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
    | To: manynote@library.wustl.edu
    | Subject: Other harmonic 7th comma
    |
    | Bosanquet has written that 14 fifths downwards (the Pythagorean double
    | diminished octave) is very close to the harmonic seventh. Is the
    | comma belonging to it, 33554432/33480783 = 2^25 * 3^-14 * 7^-1 =
    | 3.8041 cents ever called Bosanquet's comma, does anyone know?
    |
    | Manuel Op de Coul

    Another interval that might be a candidate for the name "septimal schisma" is the 2401/2400, about .72 cents. It is the difference between the 50/49 and the 49/48, both intervals which result fairly directly from septimal voice-leading.

    --pH  http://library.wustl.edu/~manynote
        O
       /\        "Foul?  What the hell for?"
      -\-\-- o   "Because you are chalking your cue with the 3-ball."
    
                 NOTE: dehyphenate node to remove spamblock.          <*>
    

    # 1561

    Topic No. 4

    Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:21:06 +0200

    From: Manuel Op de Coul

    Subject: Septimal schisma as xenharmonic bridge?

    The interval 33554432/33480783 has also been named by Eduardo Sa'bat, Beta 2. Septimal schisma seems a good name to me. The bridges from Margo's post are easily found with Scala. It can take all the combinations of two intervals and check whether a given interval (some comma for example) is a sum or difference of them. The list of interval names intnam.par that is provided can be used for that. So do:

    load intnam.par

    show combination 33554432/33480783

    In this case, only differences are found:

    5120/5103 - 32805/32768
    Beta 5 - schisma

    64/63 - 531441/524288
    septimal comma - Pythagorean comma

    15625/15309 - 34171875/33554432
    great BP diesis - Ampersand's comma

    134217728/129140163 - 28/27
    Pythagorean double diminished third - 1/3-tone

    8/7 - 4782969/4194304
    septimal whole tone - Pythagorean double augmented prime

    16777216/14348907 - 7/6
    Pythagorean double diminished fourth - septimal minor third

    9/7 - 43046721/33554432
    septimal major third - Pythagorean double augmented second

    2097152/1594323 - 21/16
    Pythagorean double diminished fifth - narrow fourth

    32/21 - 1594323/1048576
    wide fifth - Pythagorean double augmented fourth

    67108864/43046721 - 14/9
    Pythagorean double diminished seventh - septimal minor sixth

    12/7 - 14348907/8388608
    septimal major sixth - Pythagorean double augmented fifth

    8388608/4782969 - 7/4
    Pythagorean double diminished octave - harmonic seventh

    27/14 - 129140163/67108864
    septimal major seventh - Pythagorean double augmented sixth

    1048576/531441 - 63/32
    Pythagorean diminished ninth - octave - septimal comma

    Manuel Op de Coul



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    commentary by Monzo:

    show combination 33554432/33480783 [= 3-147-1]

    I have added prime-factor notation of the form 3x5y7z to facilitate calculation.

    Beta 5
    5120/5103
    3-6517-1
    - schisma
    32805/32768
    3851
    septimal comma
    64/63
    3-27-1
    - Pythagorean comma
    531441/524288
    312
    great BP diesis
    15625/15309
    3-7567-1
    -Ampersand's comma
    34171875/33554432
    3756
    Pythagorean double diminished third
    134217728/129140163
    3-17
    -1/3-tone
    28/27
    3-371
    septimal whole tone
    8/7
    7-1
    - Pythagorean double augmented prime
    4782969/4194304
    3x5y7z
    Pythagorean double diminished fourth
    16777216/14348907
    3x5y7z
    - septimal minor third
    7/6
    3-171
    septimal major third
    9/7
    327-1
    - Pythagorean double augmented second
    43046721/33554432
    3x5y7z
    Pythagorean double diminished fifth
    2097152/1594323
    3x5y7z
    - narrow fourth
    21/16
    3171
    wide fifth
    32/21
    3-17-1
    -Pythagorean double augmented fourth
    1594323/1048576
    3x5y7z
    Pythagorean double diminished seventh
    67108864/43046721
    3x5y7z
    - septimal minor sixth
    14/9
    3-271
    septimal major sixth
    12/7
    317-1
    - Pythagorean double augmented fifth
    14348907/8388608
    3x5y7z
    Pythagorean double diminished octave
    8388608/4782969
    3x5y7z
    - harmonic seventh
    7/4
    3x5y7z
    septimal major seventh
    27/14
    337-1
    - Pythagorean double augmented sixth
    129140163/67108864
    3x5y7z
    Pythagorean diminished ninth
    1048576/531441
    3x5y7z
    - septimal comma
    63/32
    3271

    Lattice diagram of above, by Monzo


    
    

    P. = Pythagorean
    + = augmented
    ++ = double augmented
    - = diminished
    -- = double diminished
    P. comma 531441/524288 312 | | 311 | | 310 | | 39 | | schisma 32805/32768 ------------ 3851 38 | | 37 | | 36 | | 35 | | 34 | | 33 | | 32 | | 31 | | septimal comma n0 64/63 | 3-27-1 | \ \ 3-1 \ | \ | -------- 3-2 | | 3-3 | | 3-4 | | Beta 5 | 5120/5103 3-6517-1 3-5 \ | \ | \ ---------------------- 3-6 | | 3-7 | | 3-8


  • For many more diagrams and explanations of historical tunings, see my book.

  • If you don't understand the theory or the terms used here, start here.

    REFERENCES



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